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| Luigi87 | Posted: 1/21/2011 12:51:35 AM CST | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 001 |
| Level: 37 Advanced | You wrecked Sub-Zero's Flawless Victory! --- SIEG ZEON, dood! |
| Ogordemir99 | Posted: 1/21/2011 4:18:41 AM CST | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 002 |
| Level: 49 Liberal Arts Major | GET OVER HERE m i doin dis rite ___ ~ Ogordemir ~ "The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu |
| Ogordemir99 | Posted: 1/21/2011 10:35:19 AM CST | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 003 |
| Level: 49 Liberal Arts Major | Oh wow, I just noticed the "whomever" in the topic title. It's "whoever" in that position. And in any position, actually. ___ ~ Ogordemir ~ "The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu |
| Luigi87 | Posted: 1/21/2011 3:38:28 PM CST | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 004 |
| Level: 37 Advanced | I had a strong feeling someone was going to comment on that. I should have known it would be you! --- SIEG ZEON, dood! |
| Ogordemir99 | Posted: 1/21/2011 3:45:10 PM CST | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 005 |
| Level: 49 Liberal Arts Major | Well, I have to do something with my prospective degree in linguistics. ___ ~ Ogordemir ~ "The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu |
| Kenri of the Yuri | Posted: 1/21/2011 6:08:08 PM CST | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 006 |
| Level: 43 Editor | Isn't correcting whoever/whomever more English than linguistics? <_< --- "There's a pony in the shop, but don't buy it. It might do something unfortunate to you." ~from the first Summoner's Seal topic |
| Ogordemir99 | Posted: 1/22/2011 1:16:49 AM CST | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 007 |
| Level: 49 Liberal Arts Major | You would think so, but no. The prescriptive recommendation would note that, say (1) *Who do I ask? is ungrammatical and propose (2) Whom do I ask? as an alternative. This is a rule based on the case checking, i.e., presumably who(m) originated in an object position relative to ask and therefore (1) is ungrammatical because it's in the wrong case. The prescriptive recommendation is based on an arbitrary favoring of the existence of whom in every dialect of English. A descriptive view only notes that the word exists in some dialects and notes that, in those dialects, it turns up universally as an accusative inflection of who. This is then the descriptive standard for grammaticality: in other words, would a native speaker of a dialect of English, without over-thinking it, ever say (1)? And of course, descriptive linguistics would point out that (1) is perfectly acceptable for just about every speaker of English and therefore is probably grammatical, appearing in free variation with (2). However, (1)-(2) don't actually represent the immediate problem and it turns out the topic title is ungrammatical in both prescriptive and descriptive linguistics, as it features whomever as a subject, requiring the nominative case form - who. There is not a single native speaker of English or English PhD in existence who would say the topic title without thinking, "Wait a second...!" So correcting it is perfectly natural from the point of view of a linguist (that point of view being descriptive linguistics). The correction merely observes that the phenomenon in question is inconsistent with the standards for grammaticality of most native speakers of the particular language. It would be a correction purely of English, i.e. a prescriptive correction, if the phenomenon patterned after (1)-(2), as there is no attested linguistic basis for that claim. ___ ~ Ogordemir ~ "The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu |
| Eel | Posted: 1/22/2011 1:21:34 AM CST | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 008 |
| Level: 44 DSB Moderator | Seriously, why would you go for that kind of a useless degree if not to correct people on the internet? --- "In the best relationships, nobody wears the pants." |
| Ogordemir99 | Posted: 1/22/2011 2:07:07 AM CST | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 009 |
| Level: 49 Liberal Arts Major | Exactly! ___ ~ Ogordemir ~ "The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu |
| GameCobra | Posted: 1/22/2011 3:15:40 PM CST | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 010 |
| Level: 37 Advanced | If i ever voted Reptile, it's because MK2 brought out good memories. --- "But friends, i ask you. What is a GameCobra? From where does it come? Who are it's people?" - A Random Day on World of Warcraft |
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