Liberal Arts Major
In my experience (and going by most of the research I've seen), (a) using the language is very important, because (b) you want to give yourself as much reinforcement as possible. Memories are fickle when it comes to vocabulary: you will frequently forget anything you memorized without an internal justification for doing so. As far as grammar goes, that's a question of habituation, and the only way you're going to get to the point where you're using it well is by practicing. (And even then you might not get that far due to "fossilization" issues. Most people plateau at a level below native fluency.)
Learning kanji before learning the vocabulary items the kanji represent is a questionable way to go about things if your goal is to actually learn the language. (This topic's goal was mostly to learn something about kanji as a writing system.) Kanji point to multiple words and compounds of kanji have unpredictable meanings/readings. Unless all those words are important to you, it's going to be difficult to find a motivation to remember them. If you begin with vocabulary, though, you presumably have that motivation; when you encounter two words that point to the same kanji, it'll be easier to remember if both of those words were important to you for some reason.
Workbooks and Anki and translating from Yu-Gi-Oh cards and so on are fine, but when it comes down to it, you need to be speaking. (This is the basis behind Rosetta Stone, which is great if you don't need to know the language beyond the absolute barely functional level.) The only thing a classroom provides that self-study doesn't is the opportunity to interact with others in a target language environment. (The extent to which these interactions are actually helpful, though, varies from class to class.) If you're not in a class setting, you should get comfortable talking to yourself - maybe even recording yourself if you want to go real crazy.
Pronunciation isn't a big deal for Japanese. There are a few phones that are difficult for English speakers - the "r", the "f", the "n" sometimes, the "u", the "sh/j/ch", the "hi", and probably a number I'm forgetting - and in all likelihood you're never going to be able to pronounce them in a native-like way, so worrying about that is basically just a waste of time. Unlike languages like, say, Arabic, with its two different "h" sounds, you can substitute English phones for these without any confusion.
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~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Editor
That said, stuff like びょういん vs. びよういん is hell and a half for me to actually pronounce coherently. This seems important, too, in case I'm ever bleeding to death in Japan and end up getting a manicure instead of medical care.
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"You're childish. What are you getting? Are you getting strawberry? Ha! That's such a childish flavor, only children eat strawberry."
Liberal Arts Major
I think this is the sort of thing textbooks would be adept at teaching you.
びょういん vs. びよういん
The first one begins with [bjo], like the Scandinavian name "Bjorn". The whole thing is one syllable. (Technically, the [b] here is palatalized, which means that it's made with the tongue body close to the hard palate. The distinction doesn't matter in Japanese.) The second one begins with [bi.jo], which is two syllables: "(bumble) bee" and "yo (dawg)".
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~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Liberal Arts Major
basically i'm trying to invoke sunk cost on myself as a means to keep myself committed.
It also appears to have the clearest immediate path forward to me, assuming I go with Remembering the Kanji. That's a clearly defined path and so I'll have some structure to keep me focused and stuff.
Because as absurd as it is, my discouragement is amplified since I keep worrying that I'll do things "wrong" when really that kind of idea seems absurd when I try to think of it from a coldly logical standpoint. It isn't as if I can possibly lose anything (outside of time) because my starting point is basically "no real knowledge" and you can't really lose ground from that.
But for whatever reason it just worries me a lot and it basically paralyzes me from doing anything with discouragement and anxiety and other stuff. It's all stupid whenever I can step back and try to apply logic to it, but that doesn't really help much.
I don't know. I really should have seen this coming, it was the most likely trainwreck I'd encounter and sure enough it's come!
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
Editor
Oh I know this. Edit: except the part about the palate which I think I'd need to hear examples of spoken aloud to understand the difference
I just can't enunciate, or possibly even hear, the difference. <_<
basically i'm trying to invoke sunk cost on myself as a means to keep myself committed.
fallacies usually have no downsides, what could possibly go wrong
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"You're childish. What are you getting? Are you getting strawberry? Ha! That's such a childish flavor, only children eat strawberry."
Liberal Arts Major
I'm not aware of any methodological problems that could also lead to irreversible failure to acquire a language, but it is very easy to spend a lot of time doing a bunch of things you will then have to spend even more time undoing. For example, Chinese students typically spend a decade or more studying English. In the course of that study, they frequently acquire a dialect of English that doesn't match native-like article usage. Only a subset ever go on to acquire native-like article usage, and it's considerably difficult for them to do so - more difficult than it would have been if they hadn't already gotten used to speaking in a non-native-like way.
Speaking of which, do you know any native speakers? Native speakers are a treasure!
fallacies usually have no downsides, what could possibly go wrong
I had the same thought.
Oh I know this. Edit: except the part about the palate which I think I'd need to hear examples of spoken aloud to understand the difference
The distinction is similar to the difference between native-like pronunciations of ñ in Spanish ([ɲ], a palatal nasal) and typical L1 English speaker pronunciations when learning Spanish ([nj], an alveolar nasal followed by a palatal glide). Since this distinction is not used to differentiate between sounds in English, it is imperceptible to native English speakers, who default to [nj] in production (since that actually shows up in English, e.g. "canyon").
I just can't enunciate, or possibly even hear, the difference. <_<
Luckily for this post, Google Translate can read aloud!
[bjo]: http://translate.google.com/#ja/en/%E3%81%B3%E3%82%87%E3%81%86
[bi.jo]: http://translate.google.com/#ja/en/%E3%81%B3%E3%82%88%E3%81%86
If you don't notice anything else, you should notice a difference in the relative lengths of the two (since the second is multiple syllables). This should provide a guide for emulation if reproduction is impossible: linger on the [i] a little when pronouncing the second one.
If Japanese had relevant stress on syllables, it would be easier to tell the difference. In Danish, for example, the difference is stark:
[bjo]: http://translate.google.com/#da/en/bjo
[bi.jo]: http://translate.google.com/#da/en/bijo
For reference, Russian is another language where palatalized consonants make an appearance. Compare the first word, where the [p] is palatalized, to the second, where the "j" sound isn't:
http://translate.google.com/#ru/en/%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%BD
http://translate.google.com/#ru/en/%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD
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~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Editor
I understand the theory behind this, but English also doesn't differentiate between the [p] sound in "pit" and the one in "spit", but I can still hear the difference now that I know about it. I guess that has an advantage though where it's really, really obvious if you just put your hand in front of your mouth. >_>
If you don't notice anything else, you should notice a difference in the relative lengths of the two (since the second is multiple syllables). This should provide a guide for emulation if reproduction is impossible: linger on the [i] a little when pronouncing the second one.
Yeah, this has been my strategy. I just feel like it's a cop out, but eh.
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"You're childish. What are you getting? Are you getting strawberry? Ha! That's such a childish flavor, only children eat strawberry."
Liberal Arts Major
http://translate.google.com/#hi/en/%E0%A4%96%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AE
http://translate.google.com/#hi/en/%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AE
I have trouble hearing the difference between these two.
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~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Liberal Arts Major
absolutely nothing because it's the perfect plan
Anyway, my understanding of Remembering the Kanji is that it divides kanji into writing and reading and only really focuses on writing (and maybe one reading.)
but whatever
Speaking of which, do you know any native speakers?
Nope!
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
Liberal Arts Major
Are you in college?
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~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Liberal Arts Major
Zooming out again. Given my (lack of) success rate at intereacting in people even in a language I do know, I always saw that as a particularly difficult problem here. I recognize it's placing myself at a huge, huge disadvantage, and I'm not particularly happy about it (for a lot of reasons.)
I mean, working under the constraints I've put myself in, I realize things have become much harder than they need to be. I don't know, we'll see what happens I guess.
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
Editor
(I may or may not be attempting this.)
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"You're childish. What are you getting? Are you getting strawberry? Ha! That's such a childish flavor, only children eat strawberry."
Liberal Arts Major
There is nothing worse than teaching ESL.
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~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Liberal Arts Major
This is an interesting idea. The game engine is based on aspects of Japanese that aren't found in other major languages, so I don't see any immediate way to make analogous games for, say, Chinese, or Spanish, but this might be interesting for people who both like RPGs and want to learn Japanese. So... people who like RPGs.
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~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu