Editor
Fist's Butcher Punch was rendered void!
Archer's Diplomatic Response was rendered void!
Hold it.
I thought Void only worked on spells with the same SP cost. >_>
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"There's a pony in the shop, but don't buy it. It might do something unfortunate to you." ~from the first Summoner's Seal topic
Liberal Arts Major
It's now for costs within 5 SP in either direction.
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Liberal Arts Major
Now when I'm actually looking for one so I can work on getting my team back at the same EXP, it won't appear. At least, I think they give 6 EXP if it's a single one. =(
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
Editor
That's horrible. <_<
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"There's a pony in the shop, but don't buy it. It might do something unfortunate to you." ~from the first Summoner's Seal topic
Liberal Arts Major
I wish there was an option to remove EXP just so I could get them at the same point again.
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
Liberal Arts Major
Okay. Now only one is lagging behind, by 18 EXP now.
Edit: My mistake, 24 EXP, that's easier to work with!
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
Message last edited by xp1337 on 1/4/2010 at 04:15:10 AM
Liberal Arts Major
And of course for the character needing 24 EXP, I get 4 single Bass encounters in like 2 minutes. >_>
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
Editor
After my last grinding session, my other characters had amassed 108 stat points, while my Templar only got 18. I actually think this has been happening even longer, possibly for the entire time she's been in the third tier, but I hadn't really been paying attention until just now because the difference was so huge this time.
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"There's a pony in the shop, but don't buy it. It might do something unfortunate to you." ~from the first Summoner's Seal topic
Advanced
But... it was never working right. >_>
EDIT: Also, interesting error whereby multiple duplicate copies of players/allies are being created. This demands investigation!
BullShit you had the last version half-assed working and I do mean half-assed like always when it comes to this game. Yea it seems i have instead of a 4 man team instead i have a 6 man team 2 of which where suppose to be my second ally. But w/e so besides squirrels an beavers what can I "hunt" I can't do much in the ocean not to mention i have no freakin clue where any class npc's are.
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When the sheriff came around in the middle of the night,you hear momma crying. He was headed down to Knoxville with the weekly load. You could smell the Whiskey burning up and down copperhead road. ~ Steve Earle
Liberal Arts Major
Its total level was marked 0. There was a short window where I hadn't yet fixed the "changing classes does not set total level" glitch and my guess is that's what happened. But since your other characters were unaffected, I don't know for sure. We'll see if other people end up in this position.
BullShit you had the last version half-assed working and I do mean half-assed like always when it comes to this game.
Well... it's working pretty half-assed now as well. >_>
Yea it seems i have instead of a 4 man team instead i have a 6 man team 2 of which where suppose to be my second ally.
You actually had a seven man team.
But w/e so besides squirrels an beavers what can I "hunt"
Presently nothing. Although with literal experience the squirrels and beavers are a smorgasbord.
I can't do much in the ocean not to mention i have no freakin clue where any class npc's are.
There aren't any. See fields 44, 55, 66, and 77 for shops and 3 I believe for class changes.
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Liberal Arts Major
Voltron attacked Bass, dealing 286 damage!
Bass was killed!
Voltron attacked Father Trout, dealing 308 damage!
Father Trout was killed!
Voltron attacked Bass, dealing 269 damage!
Bass was killed!
Voltron attacked Giant Octopus, dealing 282 damage!
Giant Octopus was killed!
Voltron attacked Giant Squid, dealing 263 damage!
Giant Squid was killed!
Voltron attacked Giant Octopus, dealing 281 damage!
Giant Octopus was killed!
Hello speed grind. Also...
Did you power up Sorlt or something? >_> I actually killed it in a single turn but now I can't do that anymore. To be more precise, I killed it in two hits using my low level Paladin and Dragon Knight.
+++
"Enough is enough! I have had it with these monkey-fighting snakes on this Monday-to-Friday plane!" - TV Edited Snakes on a Plane
Liberal Arts Major
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Liberal Arts Major
Either way, my team of Paladin, Occultist, Dragon Knight, and Navigator has now pretty much destroyed Sorlit, Ekolit, and Fimbulvinter Bug with relative ease. <_<
My only issue now is gold farming because holy god Paladin and Dragon Knight shit is expensive since it was made during the time when like 1k+ gold a fight was commonplace. >_> Each piece of Paladin gear is like 10k.
EDIT: Which brings up another point. I know I made level 100+ Paladin gear, so that should probably be checked on and lowered down to the level cap. <_<
+++
"Enough is enough! I have had it with these monkey-fighting snakes on this Monday-to-Friday plane!" - TV Edited Snakes on a Plane
Message last edited by Scorpion 316 on 1/4/2010 at 04:07:03 PM
Liberal Arts Major
It should. >_>
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Liberal Arts Major
+++
"Enough is enough! I have had it with these monkey-fighting snakes on this Monday-to-Friday plane!" - TV Edited Snakes on a Plane
Editor
Everyone class changed at the same time (well, not the EXACT same time but during the same trip to the class changer, IIRC). And as far as I know, it was getting normal stat points during its second class and even some of its third class, so uh. Huh.
Oh well.
--
Unrelated to the above, my feelings about some stuff in the game:
I really like that the game has been downsized in terms of gold/stats/etc. v.<3 got way out of control in that matter (the fact that I could propose a weapon that gives a boost of +600 ATK and argue that it wouldn't be harmful to game should have been my indication of that), and the funny thing was that it didn't even matter at all. My horribly overleveled characters could still nearly be taken down by a party half their level, if not lower. The high tier enemies (Poseidon, Whales, ...I can't remember what else) were still out of reach most of the time, and I had hit the level cap (without going into special classes) and was using not-especially-weak classes (Matriach, Paladin, Marshal, ...I forget). It really did need to be toned down and this is doing that quite well. That most of us are using first tier equipment and managing okay is a good thing.
That said, I really think it could even be taken further than it is. First of all, a lot of weapons seem to be directly carried over from v.<3, which means their gold cost/level req./stat boosts are the same, which means uh... bad things. Luckily nobody is, like, a Samurai yet. (Incidentally, yes, I believe Scorp and I are to blame for most of this. <_<) Secondly, the sheer amount of stat points you start receiving once you hit the third tier is inane and basically seems to render all previous levels pointless, however I haven't played enough to say for sure. It also depends whether SS wants to be more like a traditional RPG (once you hit the level cap, there's maybe one enemy that can challenge you) or, say, World of Warcraft (once you hit the level cap, the real game begins).
...And speaking of pointless, let's talk about classless characters. If you take a character to level 10 before changing class, I believe what you receive for your trouble is: 9 stat points, +27 HP, and +27 SP. For the amount of grinding required (and the lack of fun in grinding without a class), this is just terrible. Unless more is going to be done with classless characters in the future - and there might be, I think that idea has been tossed around for a while - I don't see any real reason to keep this.
Changing the subject to EXP: This is more of a long term solution, but I think the problem would work itself out if A) a lot more enemies were implemented and B) the EXP curve was actually made a lot more aggressive. Let's use xp's proposed system for a minute: if each enemy had a recommended level and each level you were above that suggested level lowered the EXP rate by 20%, you would be given a big incentive to fight stronger enemies. This would, however, require at least 60ish enemies to work well, so it's not really something that is reasonable to implement right away.
So, yeah. Those are just my random thoughts about stuff. <_<
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"There's a pony in the shop, but don't buy it. It might do something unfortunate to you." ~from the first Summoner's Seal topic
Liberal Arts Major
To be fair though, the stat points gained as a third class still leave you at most with being able to get around 300 ATK, DEF, MDEF with a decent geared class by the time you max out. At this point in the game that looks sort of strong, but when you factor in we've just gotten started, this is basically a non-issue because enemies are only going to get tougher from here. >_>
I also do like how much more balanced it seems so far and honestly since the stat points are actually much more limited than they used to be, even those super items are still out of reach considering most of them were like 50k gold each and as I already explained, I'm having trouble amassing gold for the low tier Paladin items since they're like 10k each. With the lower gold income at this point that has essentially balanced that out on it's own.
Changing the subject to EXP: This is more of a long term solution, but I think the problem would work itself out if A) a lot more enemies were implemented and B) the EXP curve was actually made a lot more aggressive. Let's use xp's proposed system for a minute: if each enemy had a recommended level and each level you were above that suggested level lowered the EXP rate by 20%, you would be given a big incentive to fight stronger enemies. This would, however, require at least 60ish enemies to work well, so it's not really something that is reasonable to implement right away.
Very much agreed.
...And speaking of pointless, let's talk about classless characters. If you take a character to level 10 before changing class, I believe what you receive for your trouble is: 9 stat points, +27 HP, and +27 SP. For the amount of grinding required (and the lack of fun in grinding without a class), this is just terrible. Unless more is going to be done with classless characters in the future - and there might be, I think that idea has been tossed around for a while - I don't see any real reason to keep this.
I actually think this is alright, because 27 HP is actually kind of worth it to avoid putting your stats there yourself. >_>
+++
"Enough is enough! I have had it with these monkey-fighting snakes on this Monday-to-Friday plane!" - TV Edited Snakes on a Plane
Liberal Arts Major
+++
"Enough is enough! I have had it with these monkey-fighting snakes on this Monday-to-Friday plane!" - TV Edited Snakes on a Plane
Liberal Arts Major
I suppose the only thing left to do for now is revisit Sorlit and Ekolit and see just how well their power scaling kept up with me!
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
Liberal Arts Major
Crokus attacked Sorlt, dealing 194 damage!
Crokus attacked Sorlt, dealing 210 damage!
Crokus attacked Sorlt, dealing 237 damage!
Sorlt was killed!
XD Barrage of Fists. Okay, let me... not do that this time and see what happens.
Apsalar attacked Sorlt, dealing 224 damage!
Crokus attacked Sorlt, dealing 196 damage!
Sorlt smashed Anomander, dealing 428 damage!
Anomander was defeated!
Sorlt attacked Apsalar, dealing 288 damage!
Sorlt used Stamp Down on Quick Ben, dealing 335 damage!
Sorlt skewered Crokus, dealing 217 damage!
Quick Ben cast Energy Cylinder on Sorlt, dealing 310 damage!
Not that bad. I could easily finish it off on the second turn, but I'm not going to ruin the EXP Balance even after I'm past the cap, if I can avoid it at least.
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
Liberal Arts Major
Ekolt attacked Anomander, dealing 202 damage!
Ekolt attacked Anomander, dealing 191 damage!
Ekolt attacked Quick Ben, dealing 239 damage!
Ekolt created a bulwark!
Ekolt cast Judgment!
The heavens rain judgment on Anomander, dealing 44 damage!
Anomander was defeated!
The heavens rain judgment on Apsalar, dealing 59 damage!
The heavens rain judgment on Crokus, dealing 62 damage!
The heavens rain judgment on Quick Ben, dealing 40 damage!
Apsalar attacked Ekolt, dealing 0 damage!
Crokus attacked Ekolt, dealing 0 damage!
Ekolt attacked Quick Ben, dealing 168 damage!
Ekolt stirred up some birds!
Quick Ben cast Energy Cylinder on Ekolt, dealing 0 damage!
If that's still doing 0, I'm not sure I can even damage him. But then, my highest damage dealer did get taken down before he had an action.
Okay, so let me try again and hope I can get Smash, if it can tank that then there's no hope-
Crokus attacked Ekolt, dealing 190 damage!
Crokus attacked Ekolt, dealing 219 damage!
Crokus attacked Ekolt, dealing 213 damage!
Ekolt was killed!
...Barrage of Fists is the most ridiculous ability in this game. I was hitting for 0 with the Thief normally, so I used Barrage of Fists thinking nothing, or little, would happen.
Okay. Trying again without Barrage of Fists.
Crokus is defending!
Ekolt cast Judgment!
The heavens rain judgment on Anomander, dealing 34 damage!
The heavens rain judgment on Apsalar, dealing 38 damage!
The heavens rain judgment on Crokus, dealing 42 damage!
The heavens rain judgment on Quick Ben, dealing 21 damage!
Ekolt cast Divert!
Apsalar's action was redirected!
Ekolt attacked Apsalar, dealing 229 damage!
Ekolt created a bulwark!
Ekolt attacked Anomander, dealing 189 damage!
Quick Ben is defending!
In a flash, Apsalar struck Anomander, dealing 0 damage!
Anomander was poisoned!
Ekolt stirred up some birds!
Anomander smashed Ekolt, dealing 170 damage!
Anomander was weakened by poison!
Okay, finally some damage, but outside some crazy luck, I don't think Ekolit falls unless I would be lucky enough to have the right characters not attacked.
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
Advanced
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When the sheriff came around in the middle of the night,you hear momma crying. He was headed down to Knoxville with the weekly load. You could smell the Whiskey burning up and down copperhead road. ~ Steve Earle
Liberal Arts Major
Fimbulvinter Bug cast Negate!
Crokus's Barrage of Fists was negated!
Fimbulvinter Bug cast Void!
Quick Ben's Energy Cylinder was negated!
Apsalar's Chakra Flux was rendered void!
Crokus's Muscle Buff was rendered void!
Crokus's Spirit Buff was rendered void!
Quick Ben's Pillar Rain was rendered void!
Quick Ben's Hellfire was rendered void!
Quick Ben's Energy Cylinder was rendered void!
Fimbulvinter Bug attacked Quick Ben, dealing 175 damage!
Apsalar attacked Fimbulvinter Bug, dealing 234 damage!
Fimbulvinter Bug cast Fimbulvinter on Quick Ben, dealing 159 damage!
Anomander smashed Fimbulvinter Bug, dealing 561 damage!
Fimbulvinter shows why it's the greatest thing ever and totally shuts down Barrage of Fists despite the fact that in every other case it seemed to defy turn order and force itself to go first (look at the past battles and see how the Thief goes from attacking near the end to before anything)
Second Turn
Fimbulvinter Bug cast Void!
Crokus's Barrage of Fists was negated!
Anomander's Shadowblast was rendered void!
Anomander's Gravebind was rendered void!
Apsalar's Swiftstrike was rendered void!
Crokus's Barrage of Fists was rendered void!
Crokus's Shadowblast was rendered void!
Quick Ben's Magic Blast was rendered void!
Fimbulvinter Bug cast Negate!
Anomander's Smash was negated!
Quick Ben is defending!
Fimbulvinter Bug attacked Quick Ben, dealing 0 damage!
Apsalar attacked Fimbulvinter Bug, dealing 205 damage!
Fimbulvinter Bug was killed!
Locks down Barrage of Fists a second time, but otherwise can't really compete with my team, or rather, it certainly could on the few attacks it makes, but it spends a lot of actions negating and voiding things, leaving me open to damage it.
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
Editor
You should consider this advance warning
I just rolled up a fifth character who will be taking Druid at some point. <_<
First she has to go through Ninja though!
Because Ninja + Druid is clearly the most awesome class combination.
(Second is Bard + Pirate.)
---
"There's a pony in the shop, but don't buy it. It might do something unfortunate to you." ~from the first Summoner's Seal topic
Liberal Arts Major
All weapons that aren't explicitly new or haven't been explicitly changed are exactly the same as before.
Secondly, the sheer amount of stat points you start receiving once you hit the third tier is inane and basically seems to render all previous levels pointless, however I haven't played enough to say for sure.
I also thought about this when I was formulating the system ("10 SPs per level? that makes perfect sense!"), but wanted to give it a shot and didn't have any opportunity to test it myself, of course. Is a maximum 758 SPs (893 for players) too much?
It also depends whether SS wants to be more like a traditional RPG (once you hit the level cap, there's maybe one enemy that can challenge you) or, say, World of Warcraft (once you hit the level cap, the real game begins).
I'm aiming for the WoW attitude toward level caps. All the bosses should be beatable but not easy, like Herbert and (to a lesser extent) Umbris were v.<3. This is to some extent achieved by having boss stats vary according to yours, of course.
...And speaking of pointless, let's talk about classless characters. If you take a character to level 10 before changing class, I believe what you receive for your trouble is: 9 stat points, 27 HP, and 27 SP. For the amount of grinding required (and the lack of fun in grinding without a class), this is just terrible. Unless more is going to be done with classless characters in the future - and there might be, I think that idea has been tossed around for a while - I don't see any real reason to keep this.
On the contrary, I see no reason not to. People who don't care for the ridiculously pointless grind can switch classes right away, whereas people who are otherwise concerned with their stats have a little more to work with. Also, it's 18 SPs for player characters.
Changing the subject to EXP...
I'm still interested in finding a way to vary experience based on functional difficulty as opposed to assigned difficulty. I think making the drop-off more aggressive while simultaneously making the gain from fighting better enemies more impressive is the goal here, but I'm still trying to put all the pieces into place. What makes a fight difficult? Number of deaths? SP used? Number of turns? What roles do these things play? It's not easy to put this stuff together in a coherent way. >_>
I won't be posting much in these 48 hours (today and tomorrow) because of various things, but I'm still coding behind the scenes. I'm going to attempt to roll out all the presently-existing enchantments, some dungeons, and some quests in the next few days, in addition to more spells/items.
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Liberal Arts Major
It's abilities to counter and keep up with you as well as being able to actively damage you make a fight difficult in my opinion. Honestly, I think one good system would be to have the EXP vary based on how much they can hit you for and how often and the same with what you do to them. The problem with this idea is that it discourages having a tank and good defenses/good attack to a point and that's just absurd. <_<
I won't be posting much in these 48 hours (today and tomorrow) because of various things, but I'm still coding behind the scenes. I'm going to attempt to roll out all the presently-existing enchantments, some dungeons, and some quests in the next few days, in addition to more spells/items.
Hooray, more stuff! And hopefully reduced level requirements on existing stuff. <_<
+++
"Enough is enough! I have had it with these monkey-fighting snakes on this Monday-to-Friday plane!" - TV Edited Snakes on a Plane
Editor
Ah. In that case, the stat points aren't necessarily a problem... I think. (Actually, the broken equipment isn't necessarily a problem either, but should still be brought down just to be safe, IMO. <_<)
I'm still interested in finding a way to vary experience based on functional difficulty as opposed to assigned difficulty. I think making the drop-off more aggressive while simultaneously making the gain from fighting better enemies more impressive is the goal here, but I'm still trying to put all the pieces into place. What makes a fight difficult? Number of deaths? SP used? Number of turns? What roles do these things play? It's not easy to put this stuff together in a coherent way. >_>
I agree, and that's why I sort of defaulted to xp's level based system. <_<
some quests in the next few days
yesssssss
---
"There's a pony in the shop, but don't buy it. It might do something unfortunate to you." ~from the first Summoner's Seal topic
Liberal Arts Major
Go farm about 5 mil+ gold to fully suit a character off of those fish and we'll talk. >_> Unless there's a few items with absurd stats that aren't priced at like half a mil (pretty sure all of mine were at least. <_<) at which point their prices need raised or something, yes. >_>
I mean, sure there will probably be plentiful sources of gold in the future, but I expect those sources to be more than up to par for the good equipment. <_< I mean, I don't want the same Island Turtles from before. I want Island Turtles that could actually, you know, kill you first. >_>
+++
"Enough is enough! I have had it with these monkey-fighting snakes on this Monday-to-Friday plane!" - TV Edited Snakes on a Plane
Editor
They were a peaceful race of gentle giants and people went around killing them by the thousands.
I mean.
Dear god.
Can you even imagine what kinds of problems it must have caused for the ecosystem?
Never mind the implausibility of thousands of creatures the size of islands even existing to begin with, or how human-sized people managed to kill them by hitting them with sharp implements...
But when you go around killing them, think about it. Those corpses. They don't just ****in' float there anymore. They SINK. And when you've got a couple thousand islands sinking to the sea floor every day, you're gonna cause problems. Aside from crushing whatever is unlucky enough to be beneath them when they're murdered, the sheer number would actually cause the sea level to raise. And the amount of decay from thousands of creatures that size is enough to pollute the waters. If left unchecked, this makes the sea uninhabitable, eventually killing off all the fish in the ocean. And, as I'm sure you know, killing fish is the cornerstone of the world economy.
Do you think gold just grows on trees?
No.
People get it by KILLING FISH.
No more fish to kill, no more easy, renewable source of gold. People turn on the few land-based creatures, and hunt them to extinction. With no more gold, people can't buy the ludicrously overpriced third tier equipment. Marutin would overrun Seahome. Never mind that all the sources of food are gone and that the environment is too far in shambles to even grow crops.
The people of White City riot in the streets even as they're starving to death!
So, I guess what I'm saying is.
SS v.<3 wasn't just "closed" one day because some guy who made it decided to close it for, what, ****in' renovation?
No!
You caused the goddamn apocalypse by killing too many of those ****in' Island Turtles!
And for what?
To gain a few measly levels?
You disgust me.
So, no, they won't be coming back. Now sit in the corner and think about what you did.
---
"There's a pony in the shop, but don't buy it. It might do something unfortunate to you." ~from the first Summoner's Seal topic
Message last edited by Kenri of the Yuri on 1/5/2010 at 04:33:02 AM
Advanced
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When the sheriff came around in the middle of the night,you hear momma crying. He was headed down to Knoxville with the weekly load. You could smell the Whiskey burning up and down copperhead road. ~ Steve Earle