Liberal Arts Major
First thing's first, and that's surprise PvP (PvP in the field, outside of the challenge system), a problem that's been rather difficult mostly because urn-based combat systems imply that you don't get to do anything if the other guy isn't active, so attacking some guy who isn't there makes the feature suck for aggressive people. Standard PvP in SS solves this problem by allowing you to run if you're tired of waiting. Allowing people to run from surprise PvP at the click of the button is disingenuous.
Kenri's solution, which is to move people out of the combat zone/combat after a specific amount of time of inactivity works, but then we run into another problem: the PKer can't really do jack if the other guy's already in a battle. Standard PvP in SS doesn't even let you accept challenges from people while those people are in battle. This problem isn't easily solved, and because I'd imagine the largest "struggles" for territory would occur over resources - that is, mostly "spawning" areas. This problem essentially cancels all utility of this feature's most important utility. But, as is true for all things, there is a solution. In this case, it's artificial intelligence.
My original idea was to create a proxy of the attacked team. The problem with that is that there are already almost 200 spells in the game, so developing an in-depth AI for each class/character is the most impractical plan ever conceived. While reviewing this problem, I came upon the obvious idea of simplifying the AI's choice pool, at which time I remembered an idea I had at the very beginning of SS's development.
Ships.
In order to access the vast ocean and the even vaster sky of the envisioned SS world, it would be necessary for flavor reasons to mandate the possession of some sort of airship or boat, depending on the occasion. It would have been a total shame to disregard the possibility of aircraft to aircraft or flagship to flagship PvP battles, but up until now I hadn't figured any clear-cut way to do it. Proxies, however, seem to be the way to go. Here's how it might work:
Step 1. You, being the jackass type who always wants to loot people, notice the name of some scrub listed in the ocean-bound field you happen to be in. You click that name.
Step 2. Upon clicking the name, a copy of the scrub's ship will be generated and inserted into the database as a monster, and you will begin a battle with it.
Step 3. The scrub's proxy ship will have a rather complicated AI decide it's actions, while you attack it normally with your ship. Whenever the proxy takes damage, that damage is first applied to the scrub's real ship, then the real ship's new HP is recopied to the proxy; the same with SP. Running replaces your ship's turn with an attempt to get away.
Step 4. While you're battling with the ship, the scrub will get a little message at the top of his pages detailing the fact that you're trying to kill him in what field you're doing it. Players who are getting attacked will lose their ability to teleport - i.e., type in the field they want to go to - but while they are a certain number of fields away from the attacker - let's say five - their proxy ship will do nothing but attempt to flee.
Step 5. Alternatively, if the scrub feels like having fun, he can attack his own attacker, and the process starts anew.
Step 6. If a player's ship is killed, that player is removed from whatever battles he might be in in the area at the time and is sent back ashore, or to earth, or to a checkpoint somewhere outside the surprise-PvP zones. His ship will need repairs before he can use it again. The winner will get some monies.
This works with airships and seaships, but what to do with ground stuff? Tanks aren't very fantasy-like, after all. Neither are giant mechanical death suits. The solution here lies with the flavor: the world of SS is embroiled in a number of separate revolutionary wars, and it's quite foolish to blunder into a war zone with a company of four people and call it quits. You need some sort of army. So I'll give it to you.
In order to go into land-based surprise-PvP zones, you'll need some sort of company to go with you. A company will consist of five units: a leader, two vanguard units, and two additional units. The same general rules and mechanics apply with these as with ships, though I think there might be a few exceptions:
Airships/Seaships
- When battling monsters... you use your four-character team.
- When attacking players... you use your ship.
- When defending player attacks... you use a proxy of your ship.
Companies
- When battling monsters... you use your four-character team.
- When attacking players... you use your four-character team. This is a point of contention. It's possible to use your army here as well, and the benefits of each option should be clear. The flavor also fits better: ships have no minds of their own, but companies of characters can fend for themselves.
- When defending against player attacks... you use a proxy of your company.
As far as the AI you're putting all your faith into goes, I will of course do my best to make it realistic, but I will also give you the opportunity to select patterns of behavior - i.e., all defense, control, reckless, etc. - and over time I'll attempt give players the ability to create actual patterns of behavior.
Crafting
In light of my consideration of professions and talents, crafting seems like a good idea: certain professions give you the ability to collect materials, and crafting classes give you an opportunity to do something with those materials. Here's a list of classes and their jobs:
- Silvershapers will craft items.
- Spellcrafters will, predictably, craft non-summon spells.
- Soulshapers will craft summons.
- Pirates and the rest of their tree will craft and repair both ships, although I might produce a separate class for airships.
- Monarchs will create company leaders.
- Emperors will create company vanguards.
- Elders will create other company units.
Lastly, in order to give crafting some value in the economy, only players who have the crafting profession will be able to make characters that craft. This creates scarcity and gives crafters a way to earn money.
Comments?
This is the part where you tell me I'm an idiot.
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~ Ogordemir ~
Buddha promised me Nirvana and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
"Democracy is the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people." ~ Oscar Wilde
DSB Moderator
These ideas would be better if there weren't just three massively overleveled people who played SS. <_<
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Mega Sonic
Endut! Hoch Hech!
Editor
<_<
Anyway, I like. Especially the crafting, and especially the ship crafting. I assume this means I would be able to customize it with various weapons and stuff? >_>
Considering the classes you listed would get crafting skills, would other classes get different "skills"? Or are they (Elders, -Shapers, etc) getting crafting instead of better spells/equipment?
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"Everything lasts forever." ~Homer Simpson
"It says no Homers. We're allowed to have one."
Liberal Arts Major
I don't know what Suikoden is, and all I know about Skies of Arcadia is that it's a videogame called Skies of Arcadia.
But yes, I suppose.
These ideas would be better if there weren't just three massively overleveled people who played SS. <_<
True. But the more features you have, the more people you can attract, or some other bullshit. In any case, one of my goals with SS is to see how closely I can model standard MMORPG's in a browser-based game. This is just one more step toward that goal.
I assume this means I would be able to customize it with various weapons and stuff? >_>
Yes, and you can also teach it a limited number of spells, but most of the time the actions ships take will be represented by that ship's array of weapons.
Considering the classes you listed would get crafting skills, would other classes get different "skills"? Or are they (Elders, -Shapers, etc) getting crafting instead of better spells/equipment?
I'm just now working out the details of the profession system, but the underlying idea is that one's profession regulates what skills they can use outside of battle: crafters craft items, miners mine jewels and such, healers heal characters from anywhere, fishers fish in the ocean, hunters locate other players and generate food, etc. The items the professions obtain will be quest items, items used for crafting, or just generally a source of revenue. And profession skills can be taught to certain classes only if your main character has that distinct profession - so the only way you could teach your Silvershaper crafting spells is to have the crafting profession. If you're a hunter, your Silvershaper can't do jack outside of battle.
___
~ Ogordemir ~
Buddha promised me Nirvana and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
"Democracy is the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people." ~ Oscar Wilde
Editor
---
"Everything lasts forever." ~Homer Simpson
"It says no Homers. We're allowed to have one."
New Moderator
___
~ Ogordemir ~
When I feel like being awesome in another way.
Liberal Arts Major
+++
http://i15.tinypic.com/4c1rtwh.jpg
If only the Catholics would really see the light.. *sigh*
New Moderator
EDIT - To clarify, an example team.
Main: Paladin
Profession: Crafting
~~~
Ally: Silvershaper
Ally: Elite Marksman
The Silvershaper can learn crafting spells in this example. Nobody else can, and no other profession skills can be learned.
Main: Paladin
Profession: Hunting
~~~
Ally: Silvershaper
Ally: Elite Marksman
The Marksman can learn hunting spells (assuming they're for hunters), but nobody else can. The Silvershaper can't learn crafting spells.
Now, this is rather restrictive, so I will probably make the only restrictions for non-crafting profession skills be the main character's profession, so in this example
Main: Paladin
Profession: Mining
~~~
Ally: Silvershaper
Ally: Elite Marksman
Ally: Jester
everyone can learn mining skills. Crafting, however, is far more complicated than the other professions, so I think the added restriction is merited. It also makes sense.
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~ Ogordemir ~
When I feel like being awesome in another way.
Message last edited by Silvas on 2/15/2007 at 10:35:25 PM
Editor
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"Everything lasts forever." ~Homer Simpson
"It says no Homers. We're allowed to have one."
Liberal Arts Major
___
~ Ogordemir ~
Buddha promised me Nirvana and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
"Democracy is the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people." ~ Oscar Wilde
Editor
---
"Everything lasts forever." ~Homer Simpson
"It says no Homers. We're allowed to have one."
Liberal Arts Major
___
~ Ogordemir ~
Buddha promised me Nirvana and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
"Democracy is the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people." ~ Oscar Wilde
Editor
So, theoretically:
Main: Kenri (Marshal)
Profession: Shipcrafting
Ally: Pirate
Ally: Airshipper
I could then craft both airship and seaships, correct?
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"Everything lasts forever." ~Homer Simpson
"It says no Homers. We're allowed to have one."
Liberal Arts Major
Although I might just make the profession Crafting and allow a particularly bored player to craft everything if he gets the seven-eight characters required. (They're all third-level classes, so more power to him.) In which case it would be:
Main: Marshal
Prof: Crafting
Ally: Pirate
Ally: Airshipcrafter
For both ships, and you can throw in
Ally: Silvershaper
if you want items.
___
~ Ogordemir ~
Buddha promised me Nirvana and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
"Democracy is the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people." ~ Oscar Wilde
Message last edited by Silvas on 2/15/2007 at 10:59:01 PM
Editor
---
"Everything lasts forever." ~Homer Simpson
"It says no Homers. We're allowed to have one."
Liberal Arts Major
___
~ Ogordemir ~
Buddha promised me Nirvana and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
"Democracy is the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people." ~ Oscar Wilde
Editor
Do Emperors/Monarchs/Elders count as "crafters"? >_>
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"Everything lasts forever." ~Homer Simpson
"It says no Homers. We're allowed to have one."
Liberal Arts Major
What do you think?
___
~ Ogordemir ~
Buddha promised me Nirvana and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
"Democracy is the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people." ~ Oscar Wilde
Message last edited by Silvas on 2/15/2007 at 11:16:30 PM
Liberal Arts Major
But if he is, it does give him more purpose. I was just saying at least it's something to make the main character more useful and special than being someone who can't be removed and likely sucks compared to any new party members you ever make. >_>
+++
http://i15.tinypic.com/4c1rtwh.jpg
If only the Catholics would really see the light.. *sigh*
Liberal Arts Major
Personally, my main character is by far the best. >_>
___
~ Ogordemir ~
Buddha promised me Nirvana and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
"Democracy is the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people." ~ Oscar Wilde
Editor
---
"Everything lasts forever." ~Homer Simpson
"It says no Homers. We're allowed to have one."
Liberal Arts Major
___
~ Ogordemir ~
Buddha promised me Nirvana and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
"Democracy is the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people." ~ Oscar Wilde
Editor
---
"Everything lasts forever." ~Homer Simpson
"It says no Homers. We're allowed to have one."