Legend
"Let's see if we can get 500 posts in 3 days."
Rules:
No more 3 posts in a row.
Topic is open to any discussion.
Min 3 words per post.
When you reach post number 50, 100, 200, 250, 300, and 400, post the time and day and congratulate the people. When you reach 500, go crazy with caps and act like you cured cancer.
Go!
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"The definition of a hero under Rousseaus definition <- or, in less idiotic terms, Rousseaus definition of a hero
Legend
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"The definition of a hero under Rousseaus definition <- or, in less idiotic terms, Rousseaus definition of a hero
Editor
A) No one can PROVE this wrong.
B) Why do you think it should be banned? I need something to work off.
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The Credo of Little Mac: Any time not spent doing ZE UPPERCUT is time that could be better spent doing ZE UPPERCUT.
"...Your animal analogies have grown tiresome!" ~Godot, Phoenix Wright 3
Advanced
I just can't honestly feel comfy with it.
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Homer: My son could've fell into anyone of these machines! *sees a box* ...oh my god! That's Bart's lucky red hat! *kneels before the box* A box! My son's a box! *yells at the heavens* DAMN YOU! A BOX!!!
Legend
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"The definition of a hero under Rousseaus definition <- or, in less idiotic terms, Rousseaus definition of a hero
Advanced
if you're going along with it, you gotta expect this. even if you're trying to cut chances down to nil.
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Homer: My son could've fell into anyone of these machines! *sees a box* ...oh my god! That's Bart's lucky red hat! *kneels before the box* A box! My son's a box! *yells at the heavens* DAMN YOU! A BOX!!!
Editor
What you're suggesting is one of the following two:
A) A fetus is a life; we should not be allowed to kill any living things
B) A fetus is a person; we should not be allowed to kill other humans
I think we can both agree that A is asinine. I could go into detail but I doubt I need to.
B) is incorrect too. A fetus is essentially a parasite. It is not a person, no matter how you define it. Watch - I define a person as a cow. Beef is murder!
See how that doesn't work? Like, at all? Same idea.
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The Credo of Little Mac: Any time not spent doing ZE UPPERCUT is time that could be better spent doing ZE UPPERCUT.
"...Your animal analogies have grown tiresome!" ~Godot, Phoenix Wright 3
Advanced
B) A fetus is a person; we should not be allowed to kill other humans
I think we can both agree that A is asinine. I could go into detail but I doubt I need to.
B) is incorrect too. A fetus is essentially a parasite. It is not a person, no matter how you define it. Watch - I define a person as a cow. Beef is murder!
See how that doesn't work? Like, at all? Same idea.
But with that kind of logic, i could also define the cow as a parasite. same difference.
but what i consider here in this situation of abortion is at least killing another "human" being. even if you could consider it a parasite, it is a human nonetheless.
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Homer: My son could've fell into anyone of these machines! *sees a box* ...oh my god! That's Bart's lucky red hat! *kneels before the box* A box! My son's a box! *yells at the heavens* DAMN YOU! A BOX!!!
Legend
I shall leave you with this though:
First of all, I don;t see why abortion is necessary at all. Putting aside whether it's a life or not, all actions have consequences and if you had sex, you better be prepared for the possibility of having a kid. There's no easy way out of stuff in life. If you can't take care of the kid, you ca give him up for adoption. There are PLENTY of willing parents who can't have kids of their own to take him/her. There are huge lines for kids with Down's; imagine how many would want a perfectly healthy kid.
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"The definition of a hero under Rousseaus definition <- or, in less idiotic terms, Rousseaus definition of a hero
Legend
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"The definition of a hero under Rousseaus definition <- or, in less idiotic terms, Rousseaus definition of a hero
Advanced
but what i consider here in this situation of abortion is at least killing another "human" being. even if you could consider it a parasite, it is a human nonetheless.
You missed the point with the Parasite comparison actually. The reason it is a parasite is because it draws sustenance from a host body against its will, and is most definitely not helpful and often times harmful to said host physically.
The literal definition of parasite is...
parasite (pār'ə-sīt') Pronunciation Key
n.
Biology An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
So irregardless of your stance on the subject, it is a fact that a fetus can be classified as a parasite. It fits the definition to the tee.
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"What's the point of having nukes if I can't ever use 'em?" ~Coop~
Liberal Arts Major
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~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Advanced
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Homer: My son could've fell into anyone of these machines! *sees a box* ...oh my god! That's Bart's lucky red hat! *kneels before the box* A box! My son's a box! *yells at the heavens* DAMN YOU! A BOX!!!
Legend
Editor
Condoms can break, birth control can fail. There's also, ya know, rape. And sometimes giving birth is potentially fatal. But you're right, they were all asking for it.
And yeah, that's what the world needs, more kids. We're only at, like, 7 billion people. Let's add a few more unwanted ones!
Also, a fetus has the potential to be a life. Killing it, is pretty much killing a life, as without intervention it would become a human.
But it's NOT a human. It's like a tumor. Whether it would BECOME a human is irrelevant, as abortion kills it before it has the chance.
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The Credo of Little Mac: Any time not spent doing ZE UPPERCUT is time that could be better spent doing ZE UPPERCUT.
"...Your animal analogies have grown tiresome!" ~Godot, Phoenix Wright 3
Juggernaut, bitch.
So you want us to prove that you don't think that?
But it's NOT a human. It's like a tumor. Whether it would BECOME a human is irrelevant, as abortion kills it before it has the chance.
No way in hell I feel like getting into a full blown argument and even though I am a proponent of abortion in some circumstances, when do you feel that it actually becomes a person?
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Burgess [Z?] http://blog.myspace.com/burgess51
I smell like smoke because I have walked through fire.
Message last edited by Burgess on 11/17/2007 at 08:41:52 PM
Advanced
til then, abortions is just not a healthy way i could say of fixing a problem that was caused from sex. even abortions can be just as bad, though not as fatal as child birth.
And yeah, that's what the world needs, more kids. We're only at, like, 7 billion people. Let's add a few more unwanted ones!
but we SURELY can't stop it already by not giving into our most natural urges, m i rite?!?
course not. everyone thinks sex is inevitable. like death! >_>
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Homer: My son could've fell into anyone of these machines! *sees a box* ...oh my god! That's Bart's lucky red hat! *kneels before the box* A box! My son's a box! *yells at the heavens* DAMN YOU! A BOX!!!
Juggernaut, bitch.
Besides, been a while since we went a round.
Condoms can break, birth control can fail.
No one has ever said that those two things are fail proof, and if anyone has ever said that, then they deserve to be retroactively aborted. While the success rate may be around something like 98.whatever% for them respectively, that is not 100%. If you want to get an abortion just because your condom broke, well...you knew what you were doing was risky in the first place since you were taking the precaution of wearing a condom.
And yeah, that's what the world needs, more kids. We're only at, like, 7 billion people. Let's add a few more unwanted ones!
There's only around...42 million done worldwide every year (according to http://www.abortiontv.com/Misc/AbortionStatistics.htm), so it's not like we're going to be overrun in a week like you're kind of making it sound.
About the parasite thing...
parasite (pār'ə-sīt') Pronunciation Key
n.
Biology An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
You do realize that most people can fall under this definition under they're like, 18 at the least right? I mean, this kind of means that babies are parasites, and thus not people. So where is the divide? At what point does the little bundle of cells that becomes some lizard looking thing which becomes more person like and then progresses to being birthed become a person? Is it once it passes through the mother's vagina into this world? Does that mean that people who are born through C-Section aren't people?
I know you're not going there but...well just keep reading and enjoy my being hypocritical.
But it's NOT a human. It's like a tumor. Whether it would BECOME a human is irrelevant, as abortion kills it before it has the chance.
IT'S NOT A TUMA.
tumor (tmr, ty-)
n.
1. An abnormal growth of tissue resulting from uncontrolled, progressive multiplication of cells and serving no physiological function; a neoplasm.
2. A swollen part; a swelling.
It's not abrnomal. It's not uncontrolled. While it is progressive, there is actually a physiological function since our bodies are built for doing it (and doing it). Oh sure, you didn't say it WAS a tumor, you said it's LIKE a tumor. Much in the same way you're saying that the fetus is LIKE a parasite. It's not really, but saying something like that is edgy and perhaps either gets some part of your point across (not really) or just shuts the other side up due to pure shock value.
It is not a person, no matter how you define it. Watch - I define a person as a cow. Beef is murder!
...oh what the fuck. Anyway, I asked you at what point do you define the lil creation to be a person, but now dare I ask (dare, dare!) you what your criteria is for being a person? Is it just looking like a person? The whole soul thing? Anything else?
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Burgess [Z?] http://blog.myspace.com/burgess51
I smell like smoke because I have walked through fire.
Liberal Arts Major
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"What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say its terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No. Can they knock down a building? Yes. Can they kill somebody? Yes. But can they change us? No. Only we can change ourselves. So what is the great threat we are facing? - Colin Powell
Juggernaut, bitch.
However, I do want to headbutt just about every person that says "life begins at conception!" until they are put in a coma. I mean yeah, I guess it is possible that they have a point and it might actually be then, but...I dunno. I guess that for me to agree with that, I would have to be a somewhat more religious person than I am now. Granted, I'm leaps and bounds compared to what I was a while ago since I started taking a look at things, there's still a core of the big evil that I was in me. I guess that I can live with myself thinking that it's okay to abort the pregnancy when it's just that little ball of cells (and don't you use this against me since I can turn around and say that you're still just that. Shit, every cell in your body is fully recycled and different approximately every seven years, so I can also argue that you're not even the same person anymore twice over) and not when it's further along and actually looks like a person and has lungs/brain/heart/etc.
Personally, whenever a guy tells me that life begins at conception, I tell to to quit jerking off then because the motherfucker is practically committing genocide. Of course, the act of sex itself does that on it's own since only one sperm survives in it's own little way, but at least they are given somewhat more of a chance than being shot into a sock and thrown underneath your bed.
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Burgess [Z?] http://blog.myspace.com/burgess51
I smell like smoke because I have walked through fire.
Legend
Condoms can break, birth control can fail. There's also, ya know, rape. And sometimes giving birth is potentially fatal. But you're right, they were all asking for it.
Rape always comes up in these arguments. There is one statement that answers all the points above: Life sucks - deal with it. For the first two, it's your fault so deal with the consequences. If you break up with your gf and she's being a bitch, the doesn't give you the right to kill her. If you get raped, well, that must suck and all, but killing won't help and you gotta deal with it, just like other people who's lives suck. And, once again, adoption make make some family's dreams come true.
And yeah, that's what the world needs, more kids. We're only at, like, 7 billion people. Let's add a few more unwanted ones!
Not unwanted. Unwanted for the sex-a-holics maybe. Not for those who can't have kids.
But it's NOT a human. It's like a tumor. Whether it would BECOME a human is irrelevant, as abortion kills it before it has the chance.
Why is it irrelevant? Tumors won't become human. Here, you are in effect directly killing it, by not letting it become a human. Dictionary.com: kill
1.to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay.
Burg makes a good argument for the tumor thing, so I think that one's covered.
On to life at conception and condoms breaking:
Conception does not occur immediately. If you aren't a moron, you'll notice your condom broke and can take actions with a morning-after pill or some such. If I ever do it, I'll probably take spermicide, wear a condom, and force the girl to take birth control (which is why I will never get any, but that's beside the point >_>). Basically, you have time before conception occurs and at that time, it's different than just regular sperm being "shot into a sock" (you can also say the girl is committing genocide every month with that logic). To be alive, one must be able to grow through metabolism, reproduce, and be able to adapt with the environment. The fetus definitely grows - no question about that. It can't reproduce by the true definition of the term, but the parents can. and reproduction is "the biological process by which new individual organisms are produced" (wiki) ie the fetus is an organism that is produced -> life. And of course, it definitely adapts to its environment as it grows and gets ready to be born.
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"The definition of a hero under Rousseaus definition <- or, in less idiotic terms, Rousseaus definition of a hero
Liberal Arts Major
Conception may not occur -immediately- but it happens pretty damn fast. Morning-after pill prevents the zygote from implanting to the uterus wall (which takes considerably longer in a relative manner), that's all.
Also, I used to think adoption was better, but ignoring emotional ramifications... do you realize how overburdened the adoption system actually is right now?
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"What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say its terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No. Can they knock down a building? Yes. Can they kill somebody? Yes. But can they change us? No. Only we can change ourselves. So what is the great threat we are facing? - Colin Powell
Juggernaut, bitch.
Fire is alive.
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Burgess [Z?] http://blog.myspace.com/burgess51
I smell like smoke because I have walked through fire.
Liberal Arts Major
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"What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say its terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No. Can they knock down a building? Yes. Can they kill somebody? Yes. But can they change us? No. Only we can change ourselves. So what is the great threat we are facing? - Colin Powell
Legend
fire doesn't have metabolism
Conception may not occur -immediately- but it happens pretty damn fast. Morning-after pill prevents the zygote from implanting to the uterus wall (which takes considerably longer in a relative manner), that's all.
The morning-after pill is designed to be taken before something like 72 hours after sex..... Plus it's pretty effective with like a 75-80% success rate in preventing pregnancy.
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"The definition of a hero under Rousseaus definition <- or, in less idiotic terms, Rousseaus definition of a hero
Juggernaut, bitch.
~~
Burgess [Z?] http://blog.myspace.com/burgess51
I smell like smoke because I have walked through fire.
Legend
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"The definition of a hero under Rousseaus definition <- or, in less idiotic terms, Rousseaus definition of a hero
Legend
___
"The definition of a hero under Rousseaus definition <- or, in less idiotic terms, Rousseaus definition of a hero
Legend
___
"The definition of a hero under Rousseaus definition <- or, in less idiotic terms, Rousseaus definition of a hero
Liberal Arts Major
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu