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THS Ruler Posted: 4/22/2008 3:09:20 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 001
Level: 30
Legend
Being gay puts you in the small percentage of the population - making you an outcast that in nature would not survive in normal circumstances. The world today truly does not promote survival of the fittest and natural selection. The only thing left really is smoking. Which is why I'm pissed at the whole "quit smoking" bs that spends tons of money. If a person wants to quit smoking, that's fine, but if they don't, that's their fucking problem. Let them smoke - we need to clean out the gene pool. Of course, not next to non-smokers. Those people that smoke next to normal people deserve to be shot on the spot. We have a no smoking zone on campus. Smokers have to go off campus to smoke. And then you see fuckers that smoke right next to the signs. Fuck them. I want to beat the shit out of those people. I have nothing against smokers - I just hate the stupid annoying killer smokers that endanger the people around them.
___
(9:33:53 PM) Alestra77: you seem to have glossed over the fact that you treat all women like prostitutes
(9:34:10 PM) Alestra77: "k, so, I bought you coffee... when do I get my handjob?"
Goddammit, I hate you so much. ~ Kenri to me (3 times)
~~WINNER OF WORST TOPIC OF THE YEAR '08~~
Ogordemir99 Posted: 4/22/2008 3:18:25 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 002
Level: 49
Liberal Arts Major
I don't care about gays or people who dislike gays or anything so my position and/or debating will be more unimpressive than usual and in fact I don't think I'll bother to debate this much at all. That said:

Being gay puts you in the small percentage of the population - making you an outcast that in nature would not survive in normal circumstances.

(1) This is inane.
(2) What is the mechanism by which gays would not survive in nature?
(3) What is "normal circumstances"?
(4) What circumstances are we dealing with now? How do those ensure the survival of gays?

The world today truly does not promote survival of the fittest and natural selection.

Half a billion starving Chinamen would like to dispute this point.

The only thing left really is smoking.

And machine-and-work-related accidents, and poverty, and illicit sex, and other drugs, and the list goes on.

Which is why I'm pissed at the whole "quit smoking" bs that spends tons of money. If a person wants to quit smoking, that's fine, but if they don't, that's their fucking problem. Let them smoke - we need to clean out the gene pool. Of course, not next to non-smokers. Those people that smoke next to normal people deserve to be shot on the spot. We have a no smoking zone on campus. Smokers have to go off campus to smoke. And then you see fuckers that smoke right next to the signs. Fuck them. I want to beat the shit out of those people. I have nothing against smokers - I just hate the stupid annoying killer smokers that endanger the people around them.

None of this has anything to do with being gay, and it's not exactly debatable; i.e. it's all value judgments. I personally have nothing against smokers doing whatever they want.
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
THS Ruler Posted: 4/22/2008 3:24:25 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 003
Level: 30
Legend
What is the mechanism by which gays would not survive in nature?

Lack of reproduction sets them away from the group. Also, soliciting sex from the same gen, especially male to male will result in the gay animal being mauled to death.


What is "normal circumstances"?

Meaning in the wild. Not in a controlled environment, such as a zoo, where the caretakers would step in and save the animal.


What circumstances are we dealing with now? How do those ensure the survival of gays?

See above.


Half a billion starving Chinamen would like to dispute this point.

That's not survival of the fittest. Riots are put down with force, so they're not really fighting against their own kind. Unless they like eat each other...o_0


And machine-and-work-related accidents, and poverty, and illicit sex, and other drugs, and the list goes on.

True. But smoking kills more. <_<


None of this has anything to do with being gay, and it's not exactly debatable; i.e. it's all value judgments. I personally have nothing against smokers doing whatever they want.

Would you have dated Andy if she smoked?

And this debate is open to anything and everything.
___
(9:33:53 PM) Alestra77: you seem to have glossed over the fact that you treat all women like prostitutes
(9:34:10 PM) Alestra77: "k, so, I bought you coffee... when do I get my handjob?"
Goddammit, I hate you so much. ~ Kenri to me (3 times)
~~WINNER OF WORST TOPIC OF THE YEAR '08~~
Ogordemir99 Posted: 4/22/2008 3:33:02 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 004
Level: 49
Liberal Arts Major
Lack of reproduction sets them away from the group.

I wasn't disputing this. However, for humans, bias toward sexual orientation is culturally-configured. Cf. Ancient Greece vs. the Holy Roman Empire.

Also, soliciting sex from the same gen, especially male to male will result in the gay animal being mauled to death.

And there are examples of gay people being mauled to death? We're not talking about raccoons here.

Meaning in the wild. Not in a controlled environment, such as a zoo, where the caretakers would step in and save the animal.

Is this supposed to be a deep, symbolic condemnation of the Establishment? Or what?

See above.

So we... live in a zoo?

That's not survival of the fittest. Riots are put down with force, so they're not really fighting against their own kind. Unless they like eat each other...o_0

Survival of the fittest includes elimination of those unable to provide adequate food for themselves. This is true for a good portion of the global population. Malthus told me so.

True. But smoking kills more. <_<

On a global scale, we have AIDS, which should kill approximately the same number of people. Besides, for the analysis here, all we need is an aggregate. I was simply pointing out that smoking, though I'll concede for lack of evidence is the greatest killer, is not the only one.

Would you have dated Andy if she smoked?

I can't tell you that, having not had any experience for comparison. That also would have implied a change in her religious life, etc., and so we'd be dealing with a completely different person.

And this debate is open to anything and everything.

Then I say that the propensity to consumption function (heretofore P(x)) plus the investment function (heretofore I(x)) will always equal the marginal product at any point, given a stable money supply, thus vindicating Say's Law in the face of the Keynesian critique. As a socialist, what say you to this?
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Message last edited by Ogordemir99 on 4/21/2008 at 11:33:42 PM
THS Ruler Posted: 4/22/2008 3:48:25 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 005
Level: 30
Legend
And there are examples of gay people being mauled to death? We're not talking about raccoons here.

No, I'm citing an example of what would happen in the natural world and using that to explain the negative connotation of homosexuality with humans.
I also don't see why they have so much attention. They make up like 10% of the population and yet expect the world to revolve around them. I have no problem with gays. What you do in the bedroom is your own business. But having rallies that you're gay is stupid and idiotic. You're gay - fine. I have a torn rotator cuff. I don't go and rally about that and demand special treatment and neither should they. the status quo should not change for a lowly 10% of the population. And it's not like they're oppressed or anything. They're treated just like everyone else. What they want is special treatment - fuck that.


Is this supposed to be a deep, symbolic condemnation of the Establishment? Or what?

No, once again referencing nature and how society protects those who would be killed in the wild.



So we... live in a zoo?


You do.


Survival of the fittest includes elimination of those unable to provide adequate food for themselves. This is true for a good portion of the global population. Malthus told me so.

Helping out a people in need isn't survival of the fittest. People starving in Africa aren't examples of that either. There are none fit in there - they're all walking bones. Taking a group of non-carnivorous animals, putting them in a cage together with no food for 3 months and seeing who survives is not survival of the fittest - they have nothing to survive on. Unless you count possibly better genes to last out long periods of time. The just extend the 3 months to a year and eliminate that small possibility.


On a global scale, we have AIDS, which should kill approximately the same number of people. Besides, for the analysis here, all we need is an aggregate. I was simply pointing out that smoking, though I'll concede for lack of evidence is the greatest killer, is not the only one.

yup.


I can't tell you that, having not had any experience for comparison. That also would have implied a change in her religious life, etc., and so we'd be dealing with a completely different person.

She didn't have a religious life when she dated you. Note that she is not dating you right now. <_<


Then I say that the propensity to consumption function (heretofore P(x)) plus the investment function (heretofore I(x)) will always equal the marginal product at any point, given a stable money supply, thus vindicating Say's Law in the face of the Keynesian critique. As a socialist, what say you to this?

Looking at any 6 sided object with each side perpendicular to the others (a rectangular prism for example) we see that they have 3 principal axis of rotation. Two of those are stable, the third, the middle length axis is always unstable. To prove this, take a book, hold it facing up so you can read the title, and throw it up as you spin it towards you (spinning across that axis that is horizontal to you and divides the book in half horizontally to you). You will see the rotation is very unstable and the book does not spin like the other sides would. It flips in mid air several times, depending on the initial velocity and torque. Suck that.

___
(9:33:53 PM) Alestra77: you seem to have glossed over the fact that you treat all women like prostitutes
(9:34:10 PM) Alestra77: "k, so, I bought you coffee... when do I get my handjob?"
Goddammit, I hate you so much. ~ Kenri to me (3 times)
~~WINNER OF WORST TOPIC OF THE YEAR '08~~
Ogordemir99 Posted: 4/22/2008 3:58:14 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 006
Level: 49
Liberal Arts Major
No, I'm citing an example of what would happen in the natural world and using that to explain the negative connotation of homosexuality with humans.

The negative connotation is, again, culturally configured. We're at the point in our evolution where we don't see sex as simply a procreative activity, which has allowed us to have different opinions as to what sort of sex is acceptable over time.

I also don't see why they have so much attention. They make up like 10% of the population and yet expect the world to revolve around them. I have no problem with gays. What you do in the bedroom is your own business. But having rallies that you're gay is stupid and idiotic. You're gay - fine. I have a torn rotator cuff. I don't go and rally about that and demand special treatment and neither should they. the status quo should not change for a lowly 10% of the population. And it's not like they're oppressed or anything. They're treated just like everyone else. What they want is special treatment - fuck that.

I don't really care, so OK.

No, once again referencing nature and how society protects those who would be killed in the wild.

Human or raccoon society? You seem to be jumping around with that.

You do.

No, that's just where your mom told me to meet her.

Helping out a people in need isn't survival of the fittest. People starving in Africa aren't examples of that either. There are none fit in there - they're all walking bones. Taking a group of non-carnivorous animals, putting them in a cage together with no food for 3 months and seeing who survives is not survival of the fittest - they have nothing to survive on. Unless you count possibly better genes to last out long periods of time. The just extend the 3 months to a year and eliminate that small possibility.

What in God's name are you talking about? Africans don't live in cages. Africa is one of the richest places in the world in terms of natural resources. They're rolling in the stuff. But most of them are also starving. Survival of the fittest only makes sense if we include situations where a human population's productive capacity is not being met, i.e., that population is dying off because it's not fit to sustain itself either in the domestic or international community. It's difficult to imagine an entire population with no self-sustaining production, because that population would eliminate itself. This is an almost exact renumeration of the idea of natural selection: in a world of scarce resources, those who can use them best and/or produce the most will pull through in the end.

She didn't have a religious life when she dated you.

She went to Church twice a week and had a Church family thing every Monday. She also reiterated many times her theologically-selected distaste for alcohol. So I beg to differ.

Looking at any 6 sided object with each side perpendicular to the others (a rectangular prism for example) we see that they have 3 principal axis of rotation. Two of those are stable, the third, the middle length axis is always unstable. To prove this, take a book, hold it facing up so you can read the title, and throw it up as you spin it towards you (spinning across that axis that is horizontal to you and divides the book in half horizontally to you). You will see the rotation is very unstable and the book does not spin like the other sides would. It flips in mid air several times, depending on the initial velocity and torque. Suck that.

That hardly sounds like a response.
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Ozzmark Posted: 4/22/2008 5:08:52 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 007
Level: 30
Legend
BACK TO THE PILE!
Kenri of the Yuri Posted: 4/22/2008 5:22:08 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 008
Level: 43
Editor
And there are examples of gay people being mauled to death?

Sadly, yes. Though it's less about a gay person "soliciting sex" from a straight person and more about gay people getting killed by psychopaths who think that anyone who is different deserves to die.

Sorta like the TC.


They're treated just like everyone else.

Consenting, adult, gay couples can't get married in most places. Consenting, adult, straight couples can.

COMPLETELY EQUAL TREATMENT
---
The Credo of Little Mac: Any time not spent doing ZE UPPERCUT is time that could be better spent doing ZE UPPERCUT.

"This topic is just as dumb as you are." ~Ogor
Ogordemir99 Posted: 4/22/2008 5:58:24 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 009
Level: 49
Liberal Arts Major
Sadly, yes. Though it's less about a gay person "soliciting sex" from a straight person and more about gay people getting killed by psychopaths who think that anyone who is different deserves to die.

The important part is that they weren't mauled and therefore I'm not technically wrong in my implicit disagreement. >_>
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
THS Ruler Posted: 4/22/2008 9:07:26 PM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 010
Level: 30
Legend
Class in 11 mins, so I'll answer in subsections.

Response I:
The negative connotation is, again, culturally configured. We're at the point in our evolution where we don't see sex as simply a procreative activity, which has allowed us to have different opinions as to what sort of sex is acceptable over time.

And yet sex is still sex. It's used to make little version of us. Test tube babies have not replaced the natural way of reproducing.


I don't really care, so OK.

Yes, miss one of the most important points.


Human or raccoon society? You seem to be jumping around with that.

Nature = nature. Outside. No human involvement. Not a hard concept.


She went to Church twice a week and had a Church family thing every Monday. She also reiterated many times her theologically-selected distaste for alcohol. So I beg to differ.

..... She changed a whole lot now. You can safely interpolate.


That hardly sounds like a response.

ummm...and your's was? And besides, mine is interesting and something someone can easily test. Your's was just gay. And we're proving here that gays' suck. So you suck. So go suck it, [s]ucker.


BACK TO THE PILE!

Like in "Goobacks" where they had the giant orgy! (South Park)


Sadly, yes. Though it's less about a gay person "soliciting sex" from a straight person and more about gay people getting killed by psychopaths who think that anyone who is different deserves to die.
Sorta like the TC.


Well I definitely don't agree with that.


Consenting, adult, gay couples can't get married in most places. Consenting, adult, straight couples can.

COMPLETELY EQUAL TREATMENT


I like to kill babies. It's fun. Fuck the government for not respecting my lifestyle. I also like to streak outside. Why did I get arrested? INTOLERANCE! And that day I masturbated in the store got me kicked out. Wtf man? It's the way I live.

Equal treatment idiot. That means they have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex. Letting them marry the same sex is NOT anywhere NEAR equal.
___
(9:33:53 PM) Alestra77: you seem to have glossed over the fact that you treat all women like prostitutes
(9:34:10 PM) Alestra77: "k, so, I bought you coffee... when do I get my handjob?"
Goddammit, I hate you so much. ~ Kenri to me (3 times)
~~WINNER OF WORST TOPIC OF THE YEAR '08~~
Ogordemir99 Posted: 4/22/2008 10:00:48 PM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 011
Level: 49
Liberal Arts Major
And yet sex is still sex. It's used to make little version of us. Test tube babies have not replaced the natural way of reproducing.

THIS HAS NO RELEVANCE TO WHETHER OR NOT PUBLIC ATTITUDES TOWARD HOMOSEXUALITY VARY BY CULTURE

Yes, miss one of the most important points.

Actually I conceded your point. It's important to understand these things.

Nature = nature. Outside. No human involvement. Not a hard concept.

You say "nature and how society protects those who would be killed in the wild". In order for this to be relevant to this discussion, and not just an inane comment that humans help each other to not get eaten by cougars (but not if you're gay, apparently), 'society' must reference human society and 'nature' must fit into that coherently. You have thus far failed to achieve this coordination.

..... She changed a whole lot now. You can safely interpolate.

(1) Look up "interpolate" and tell me how that makes any sense.
(2) This is nonspecific to the point of meaninglessness. So what if she's changed? What am I supposed to be, quote, interpolating? And what does it matter in the context of a rebuttal to my observation that, had Andrea been a smoker, she would have been a completely different person, thus making it impossible to make any inferences concerning our relationship, if such a relationship would have even existed?

ummm...and your's was?

I replied to a comment that this could be a debate about anything. You replied to a comment about Keynesianism. My response made sense, yours did not.

something someone can easily test. Your's was just gay.

Mine asked a question concerning the fundamental premise of the Keynesian analysis of aggregate demand and, consequently, one of the foremost pillars of the Keynesian critique of the classical school. The suggestion I made and the resulting answer could alter all the economic thought concerning fiscal policy. (Well, in theory. My statement was almost meaningless.) And, it's testable through the use of historical economic data and econometrics.
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Tengu Ghost Posted: 4/22/2008 11:57:21 PM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 012
Level: 37
Advanced
We aren't gonna get into another gay debate are we as the last one ended in a huge flame war and we.....ok on second thought contuie on *toss's gas on the small fire going to help it become a raging bonfire*
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Kenri of the Yuri Posted: 4/23/2008 1:06:07 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 013
Level: 43
Editor
I like to kill babies. It's fun. Fuck the government for not respecting my lifestyle. I also like to streak outside. Why did I get arrested? INTOLERANCE! And that day I masturbated in the store got me kicked out. Wtf man? It's the way I live.

Out of curiosity, who exactly is allowed to do these things that would make this relevant to a discussion about equal treatment?


Equal treatment idiot. That means they have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex. Letting them marry the same sex is NOT anywhere NEAR equal.

Um, what.

It's clear you didn't read my statement. Or you ignored how I phrased it.

I did it very carefully, so you couldn't pull this bullshit.

(Also, it WOULD be equal since everyone would be able to marry the same sex. You idiot.)
---
The Credo of Little Mac: Any time not spent doing ZE UPPERCUT is time that could be better spent doing ZE UPPERCUT.

"This topic is just as dumb as you are." ~Ogor
THS Ruler Posted: 4/23/2008 1:11:00 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 014
Level: 30
Legend
You say "nature and how society protects those who would be killed in the wild". In order for this to be relevant to this discussion, and not just an inane comment that humans help each other to not get eaten by cougars (but not if you're gay, apparently), 'society' must reference human society and 'nature' must fit into that coherently. You have thus far failed to achieve this coordination.

Definitions:
Nature - The state outside of organized society. A "dog eat dog" world. I see a homeless person and I don't give a fuck. (I usually don't, but assuming I did.) This does NOT necessarily mean that if I saw a girl getting raped I wouldn't help. Although a girl is a bad example as sex from said girl would be the incentive. If I were in the state of nature and saw a guy getting beaten up and I had a crowbar and full armor and in no way would endanger myself by helping him, I could help him and still remain in the state of nature as that act, although helped another, did no harm or posed no harm to me. if anything, you can say it helped me by having the person owe me a favor in the future.
Society - a collection of individuals under a universal law and a personal set of moral values that somewhat match the rest of the people. ('Killing is bad.' Not something like 'Freedom of speech.')


Fuck the andrea thing. She's not worth the time.


I replied to a comment that this could be a debate about anything. You replied to a comment about Keynesianism. My response made sense, yours did not.

.....gay.


Kenri, we await your reply to the equal rights bullshit.


___
(9:33:53 PM) Alestra77: you seem to have glossed over the fact that you treat all women like prostitutes
(9:34:10 PM) Alestra77: "k, so, I bought you coffee... when do I get my handjob?"
Goddammit, I hate you so much. ~ Kenri to me (3 times)
~~WINNER OF WORST TOPIC OF THE YEAR '08~~
Kenri of the Yuri Posted: 4/23/2008 1:12:44 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 015
Level: 43
Editor
You mean the stuff I just replied to, or one of your other points?

I can't tell, they all look like bullshit to me!
---
The Credo of Little Mac: Any time not spent doing ZE UPPERCUT is time that could be better spent doing ZE UPPERCUT.

"This topic is just as dumb as you are." ~Ogor
THS Ruler Posted: 4/23/2008 2:01:20 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 016
Level: 30
Legend
Michael, this is why the ajax thing is really fucking needed. Kenri, I apologize.
___
(9:33:53 PM) Alestra77: you seem to have glossed over the fact that you treat all women like prostitutes
(9:34:10 PM) Alestra77: "k, so, I bought you coffee... when do I get my handjob?"
Goddammit, I hate you so much. ~ Kenri to me (3 times)
~~WINNER OF WORST TOPIC OF THE YEAR '08~~
THS Ruler Posted: 4/23/2008 2:08:39 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 017
Level: 30
Legend
Out of curiosity, who exactly is allowed to do these things that would make this relevant to a discussion about equal treatment?

And out of curiosity, who (say 10 years ago) was allowed to marry a person of the same sex?


Um, what.
It's clear you didn't read my statement. Or you ignored how I phrased it.
I did it very carefully, so you couldn't pull this bullshit.


k, let's take a better look:
Consenting, adult, gay couples can't get married in most places. Yes.
Consenting, adult, straight couples can. Yes.
COMPLETELY EQUAL TREATMENT Yes. The gay person can marry someone of the opposite sex. Equal treatment. He can't marry the same sex no more than I can kill babies and streak in public.

I don't see what I missed here.


(Also, it WOULD be equal since everyone would be able to marry the same sex. You idiot.)

It WOULD be equal if everyone could streak and kill those babies, yet I don't see that happening.
___
(9:33:53 PM) Alestra77: you seem to have glossed over the fact that you treat all women like prostitutes
(9:34:10 PM) Alestra77: "k, so, I bought you coffee... when do I get my handjob?"
Goddammit, I hate you so much. ~ Kenri to me (3 times)
~~WINNER OF WORST TOPIC OF THE YEAR '08~~
Ogordemir99 Posted: 4/23/2008 2:11:52 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 018
Level: 49
Liberal Arts Major
Michael, this is why the ajax thing is really fucking needed. Kenri, I apologize.

You posted four minutes after Kenri.

You could have, if you were really concerned about it, refreshed the topic separately - given numerous methods to do so - or, if you weren't expecting him to reply before you, you could have simply said "Oh, fuck!" and said - in what we would assume would have been your next content-filled post - that, and follow me carefully here, you didn't see his post prior to yours. Apologies are unnecessary and a special mix of dumb; nor is this the catalytic event that would make me immediately lift my ban on site development and set right to work, like a mouse to a piece of cheese.

Now, were this topic full of STP's and we had 10+ users sitting here refreshing anxiously in anticipation of the next post and they were becoming neurotic while typing their own, etc., I might have a different opinion. But four minutes does not an urgent problem make.
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Kenri of the Yuri Posted: 4/23/2008 2:12:24 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 019
Level: 43
Editor
@Tiger

I didn't mention being able to marry the same sex anywhere in my comparison.

I mentioned consenting adult couples, some of which can marry each other and some of which cannot.

And for the love of god stop bringing up dead babies.
---
The Credo of Little Mac: Any time not spent doing ZE UPPERCUT is time that could be better spent doing ZE UPPERCUT.

"This topic is just as dumb as you are." ~Ogor
Message last edited by Kenri of the Yuri on 4/22/2008 at 10:13:10 PM
Ogordemir99 Posted: 4/23/2008 2:38:42 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 020
Level: 49
Liberal Arts Major
Nature - The state outside of organized society. A "dog eat dog" world. I see a homeless person and I don't give a fuck. (I usually don't, but assuming I did.) This does NOT necessarily mean that if I saw a girl getting raped I wouldn't help. Although a girl is a bad example as sex from said girl would be the incentive. If I were in the state of nature and saw a guy getting beaten up and I had a crowbar and full armor and in no way would endanger myself by helping him, I could help him and still remain in the state of nature as that act, although helped another, did no harm or posed no harm to me. if anything, you can say it helped me by having the person owe me a favor in the future.

Society - a collection of individuals under a universal law and a personal set of moral values that somewhat match the rest of the people. ('Killing is bad.' Not something like 'Freedom of speech.')


Let's break your ill-guided attempt to evoke a political theory as unspectacular as it is outmoded into steps so maybe I better understand what you're saying:

(1) In human society. there exists a "natural" state outside of an "organized" one.
    (a) The natural state corresponds to everything that doesn't immediately involve State action.
    (b) The "organized" state is... uh... State action.
(2) When not immediately being escorted somewhere by Officer Frowny, we are in the State of Nature. Acts which place us at risk of running afoul of the State (presumably the caretaker of natural law?) place us outside the State of Nature.
(3) All actions undergone in the State of Nature are economic in nature, with the stipulation that they represent neither necessarily quantifiable values (e.g. cost-benefit analysis of saving a girl can find quantifiable expression only in opportunity costs, risk analysis, and so on, not all of which are necessarily monetarily intelligible) nor are they necessary pareto optimal.
(4) Social capital is a key component of the State of Nature.
(5) But on the other hand the State of Nature is tempered by the deontological convictions of the society in which the phenomenon occurs.

The major hole here is that (1) doesn't make sense with (3). (A second hole is in the strange interaction between (4) and (5) which makes this world of yours seem excessively dystopian.) If (3) is true, State proclamations, not necessarily actions, determine the limits of the State of Nature. That is to say, the risk of action becomes synonymous with action. All things are politically intelligible. Failing to help someone, for instance, can be made illegal under Good Samaritan type statutes. Thus the defining line between "nature" and "organization" is purely rhetorical, and the distinction becomes pointless very quickly when we discuss issues that the State is unlikely to turn a blind eye to.

In the context of this discussion, you're saying that the State will absolve itself from the issue of gays, leaving it a State of Nature issue open to cost-benefit analysis and the moral prerogatives of "organized" society. But the State will not absolve itself of this issue anytime soon and, if we follow this logic, we arrive at the conclusion that attitudes toward homosexuality are, as I've been saying up until now, culturally configured (in your model, there's a component of society which holds the moral conviction that gays are good or bad). Your original claim:

"Being gay puts you in the small percentage of the population - making you an outcast that in nature would not survive in normal circumstances."

Is not explained by this model unless we append:

"By 'making you an outcast' we mean not that your representation in the population makes you an outcast, but that - presuming a State of Nature economic calculation - the rest of your society would beat you with sticks at the first available opportunity."

And, to explain the phrase "normal circumstances", we add something like:

"Of course, this is under the assumption that this all goes on without [the aid of the State/crazy hippie rhetoric/the social acceptance of gays/whatever you're railing against but have yet to specify], which dissembles this State of Nature fatwa."

Voila, your argument is coherent! It's a description of the SQ and therefore not a boon to either side of the argument, but at least now we can safely say it makes sense.

Fuck the andrea thing. She's not worth the time.

I agree, that was a terribly aimless argument you brought up.
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Mega Sonic Posted: 4/23/2008 3:16:51 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 021
Level: 44
DSB Moderator
so why is Tiger a higher user level than me?

It's really quite baffling. <_<
---
Mega Sonic
Endut! Hoch Hech!
THS Ruler Posted: 4/23/2008 3:40:35 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 022
Level: 30
Legend
so why is Tiger a higher user level than me?

It's really quite baffling. <_<


Because I'm a winner.
___
(9:33:53 PM) Alestra77: you seem to have glossed over the fact that you treat all women like prostitutes
(9:34:10 PM) Alestra77: "k, so, I bought you coffee... when do I get my handjob?"
Goddammit, I hate you so much. ~ Kenri to me (3 times)
~~WINNER OF WORST TOPIC OF THE YEAR '08~~
THS Ruler Posted: 4/23/2008 3:42:20 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 023
Level: 30
Legend
You posted four minutes after Kenri.

You could have, if you were really concerned about it, refreshed the topic separately - given numerous methods to do so - or, if you weren't expecting him to reply before you, you could have simply said "Oh, fuck!" and said - in what we would assume would have been your next content-filled post - that, and follow me carefully here, you didn't see his post prior to yours. Apologies are unnecessary and a special mix of dumb; nor is this the catalytic event that would make me immediately lift my ban on site development and set right to work, like a mouse to a piece of cheese.

Now, were this topic full of STP's and we had 10+ users sitting here refreshing anxiously in anticipation of the next post and they were becoming neurotic while typing their own, etc., I might have a different opinion. But four minutes does not an urgent problem make.


Blah Blah, no one gives a fuck.
___
(9:33:53 PM) Alestra77: you seem to have glossed over the fact that you treat all women like prostitutes
(9:34:10 PM) Alestra77: "k, so, I bought you coffee... when do I get my handjob?"
Goddammit, I hate you so much. ~ Kenri to me (3 times)
~~WINNER OF WORST TOPIC OF THE YEAR '08~~
Das Uberpwn Posted: 4/23/2008 3:47:41 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 024
Level: 27
Idol
Did you know that gays started the AIDS pandemic? If they didn't hump so much, it wouldn't have spread so much in civilized nations.
Das Uberpwn Posted: 4/23/2008 3:51:24 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 025
Level: 27
Idol
You mean the stuff I just replied to, or one of your other points?

I can't tell, they all look like bullshit to me!


You look like bullshit to me. And your name sucks too.
Ogordemir99 Posted: 4/23/2008 4:20:20 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 026
Level: 49
Liberal Arts Major
It's really quite baffling. <_<

Tiger's level is like the business cycle. He's currently experiencing a boom.

Blah Blah, no one gives a fuck.

In which case no one gives a fuck about what you want me to do.

Did you know that gays started the AIDS pandemic? If they didn't hump so much, it wouldn't have spread so much in civilized nations.

So there's a higher concentration of gays in Africa than anywhere else in the world? Amazing!
___
~ Ogordemir ~
"The sciences have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ H.P Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu
Tengu Ghost Posted: 4/23/2008 5:02:59 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 027
Level: 37
Advanced
Did you know that gays started the AIDS pandemic? If they didn't hump so much, it wouldn't have spread so much in civilized nations.

So there's a higher concentration of gays in Africa than anywhere else in the world? Amazing!


Amazing is right Orgor, I mean Africa couldn't have gotten aids from the very very poor living conditions most of it's people live in. No that nasty little rumor about Africa being a 3rd world country that has alot of disease is all false Africa got aids by men fucking other men.

FFS that dumbass Das Uberpwn needs a permant ban for merely lowering the iq of everyone on the board by 10 points.
---
Love me or love to hate me either way you love me.
Become one of my werewolf's http://s3.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=84485
http://Twilightot.no-ip.org <---- good open tibia server. Thats the home page please try it we need players
Kenri of the Yuri Posted: 4/23/2008 5:21:30 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 028
Level: 43
Editor
You look like bullshit to me. And your name sucks too.

1. You forget that I am rubber and you are glue.
2. Whoa, a lecture on name-suckage from a guy called "Das Uberpwn"! Got any pots you want to call black while you're at it?
3. I picked this screen name like 3 years ago. Possibly more. (Possibly less.) At least I'm not "xXssj326742clinkerothXx". Or, you know, "Das Uberpwn".
---
The Credo of Little Mac: Any time not spent doing ZE UPPERCUT is time that could be better spent doing ZE UPPERCUT.

"This topic is just as dumb as you are." ~Ogor
Message last edited by Kenri of the Yuri on 4/23/2008 at 01:22:24 AM
Das Uberpwn Posted: 4/23/2008 5:38:50 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 029
Level: 27
Idol


So there's a higher concentration of gays in Africa than anywhere else in the world? Amazing!


You swine! I said civilized nations. Africa is not a civilized nation. Africa is the most uncivilized country on the planet! My uncle went to Africa's capital, and said they don't even have condoms! The gays spread AIDS from Africa, in to civilized nations. In my home country (Germany), the gays gave AIDS to drug people, and the drug people gave it to Germans!

And, Sprechen Sie mit mir verruckter Mann nicht!
Das Uberpwn Posted: 4/23/2008 5:50:48 AM UTC | Message Detail | Filter | Author Profile | # 030
Level: 27
Idol


FFS that dumbass Das Uberpwn needs a permant ban for merely lowering the iq of everyone on the board by 10 points.


You need a permanent ban, for being a failure!
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